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Post by schemmel84 on Aug 2, 2008 14:03:11 GMT -5
alright, so we decided that 08 MiLB draft picks are off limits. what about the intrenational signings such as Michael Inoa who are just elligible to be signed? I feel like they fall into the same category as the HS/college players being drafted this year and should have to be waited on until next years MiLB draft.
What do y'all think?
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Post by Rusty Trombones - Jackson on Aug 2, 2008 14:30:08 GMT -5
I think it's something we have address for 2009, not this year. The rule was already set in place that 2008 draftees were off limits, but other players only had to be under contract by a team. Mack said that 16 year old domincan boys couldn't be signed, they had to be under contract. The minute Inoa (and Rafael Rodriguez) signed, they were up for grabs. I think it's pretty unfair to take players away at this point.
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Post by schemmel84 on Aug 2, 2008 15:49:53 GMT -5
Why would it be unfair to take players away at this point? I don't understand...only one international signee has been picked up at the expense of dropping another player (Rafael Rodriguez for Ryan Tucker) and Ryan Tucker is still available to be re-acquired. None of the players have had an impact on this season or trades. It's VERY easily reversible.
I just don't see the difference between these players and the players selected in the draft. Both sets become eligible mid-season. I think we should vote on it. I don't think an individuals intrepetation of Macks semantics regarding 'dominican boys contracts' should allow such an advantage.
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Post by Rusty Trombones - Jackson on Aug 2, 2008 16:21:15 GMT -5
Why would it be unfair to take players away at this point? I don't understand...only one international signee has been picked up at the expense of dropping another player (Rafael Rodriguez for Ryan Tucker) and Ryan Tucker is still available to be re-acquired. None of the players have had an impact on this season or trades. It's VERY easily reversible. I just don't see the difference between these players and the players selected in the draft. Both sets become eligible mid-season. I think we should vote on it. I don't think an individuals intrepetation of Macks semantics regarding 'dominican boys contracts' should allow such an advantage. It would be unfair because I did my homework, followed the rules, and got my guy. I shouldn't have to give him up because you feel like bringing it up for discussion later in the year. It sounds like something to put in place for next year. I tried to pick up Pedro Alvarez months ago, and got shut down, had to give him up, and the rules changed with more defined guidlines. I followed the new guidlines, got my player, and would like to keep him. Voting on it sounds like a terrible idea. The vote will be 2-14, or at least it should be if any of you would like to own Inoa or Rodriguez. I don't want to be a dick, but this is a very tough league, I'm trying to improve my team like everyone else, and I'm getting tired of rules constantly changing because someone else didn't think of something first.
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Post by Rusty Trombones - Jackson on Aug 2, 2008 16:32:45 GMT -5
It's also unfair because Inoa got picked up a month ago, and nobody said anything. I've had Rodriguez for 3 weeks, and have since made a deal trading 2 MiLB players because Rodriguez moved them down my keeper list.
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Post by Bobby Ayala - Matt on Aug 2, 2008 16:37:51 GMT -5
I think everyone understands the intention of the rule is that players who are added midseason to the MiLB system shouldn't be available until the next draft.
In the first year of a league like this, changes are bound to happen. We're all new at this, and we suffer through it now so it's all ironed out for every year after.
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Post by Rusty Trombones - Jackson on Aug 2, 2008 17:10:35 GMT -5
I think everyone understands the intention of the rule is that players who are added midseason to the MiLB system shouldn't be available until the next draft. In the first year of a league like this, changes are bound to happen. We're all new at this, and we suffer through it now so it's all ironed out for every year after. I guess, but they weren't 13 year old venezuelan kids with no cleats or gloves. They are professional baseball players being paid by major league teams that were not drafted in the 2008 amatuer draft. If the Giants and A's can sign them mid-season because they're savvy, so can I. Don't hate me because I'm beautiful.
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Post by varsity18 on Aug 2, 2008 20:11:11 GMT -5
I have to disagree. Mack obviously made it clear that players like that are off limits. If Mack was here to regulate things I guarantee he wouldn't have allowed it to go down. But as all this time has passed, how are we to pass judgement.. I mean Obviously since Inoa isnt 16 or a dominican he is clearly eligible. Way to find that back door.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2008 23:41:54 GMT -5
I asked DaMack this same question weeks ago after the White Sox picked up a Dominican wonder child as an un-drafted prospect. He didn't get drafted, obviously, but he told me the intent was that anyone brought into a team's farm system beyond the start of 2008 would not be available until we re-draft in 2009. Otherwise I'd have tagged and bagged a few guys myself since, well, some of keepers are stink bombs.
Sorry for coming to the party late, but Mack told me I couldn't do it. He is the commish, after all, so I didn't do it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2008 9:42:26 GMT -5
IMO All this crap over who you can draft and who you can't, the numerous trades for a MiLB players or draft picks just plain sucks.... Vlad, Soriano, Halladay, and 5 for 1 etc.....
looking for the 2014 bonus baby the Little League World Series will be coming to a TV near you make sure you idiots start taking notes you will be the next great one. I heard the Valenzuela and the Taiwainese teams are loaded.
Those 2 guys mention were just signed. Bullshit move.....
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Post by Rusty Trombones - Jackson on Aug 3, 2008 9:59:59 GMT -5
Enough of the fucking hate already.
Bullshit move? Fuck you Gary, and fuck the rest of you too. Backdoor move Buckner? You're the king of that shit. I'll give the player up if that's what Mack wants (but not without defending myself first), and if it makes the rest of you stop crying. I wasn't being shady, the move was within the rules, but I realize that in the first year the rules are going to need to be adjusted. Nobody said anything for a fucking month, but now it's time to pile on?
I'll welcome the debate, but tossing insults like I broke the rules is pretty fucking weak.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2008 12:01:17 GMT -5
Gary, this league is focused on MiLB players to an extent, so it's only natural that owners would think bilaterally with MLB and MiLB in mind. If you're not a fan of the rules or the way in which other owners construct their teams, then get the fuck out because, frankly, who needs ya?
Guys, this is merely a problem with the RULE, not the PERSON, so we should further define and draw the guidelines to the rule instead of throwing insults. We're not getting anywhere as this will turn into another "Mean Girls" fight as previous threads had become. That is more tiresome to me than coming into a league in its inaugural year with a lot of gray area.
Let's figure out the rule for next year as specifically as possible and leave it at that. If it means that the players in question need to be dropped, well, we have to do what we have to do. But let's at least be civil about it since we are all adults (supposedly).
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Post by Rusty Trombones - Jackson on Aug 3, 2008 12:22:43 GMT -5
So we can hug it out, and to minimize the amount of sand entering vaginas, I'll drop Rafael Rodriguez. My balls are sore from being broken on this issue, it's not worth it. So what if he's the next Vlad? He probably had no cleats and a milk carton for a glove a few months ago, and one of you assholes can draft him just ahead of me in the MiLB draft, then throw a keg party for underage teens, get kicked out of college, and vanish.
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Post by varsity18 on Aug 3, 2008 12:37:58 GMT -5
lmao Im the king of backdoor shit. Reread what I said. "But as all this time has passed, who are we to pass judgement"
I was merely stating that if mack was here it wouldnt have went down. As it happened so long ago i figure its not a biggie. Im betting the only reason someone even noticded was that they wanted to pick him up. Not saying thats what happened but that would be funny as shit.
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Post by Rusty Trombones - Jackson on Aug 3, 2008 12:50:22 GMT -5
lmao Im the king of backdoor shit. Reread what I said. "But as all this time has passed, who are we to pass judgement" I was merely stating that if mack was here it wouldnt have went down. As it happened so long ago i figure its not a biggie. Im betting the only reason someone even noticded was that they wanted to pick him up. Not saying thats what happened but that would be funny as shit. I meant you were the king of the backdoor move because of the calling up MiLB players to drop high salaries loophole (which I use all the time).
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Post by varsity18 on Aug 3, 2008 12:55:53 GMT -5
Its a great Loophole.
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Post by Rusty Trombones - Jackson on Aug 3, 2008 13:13:02 GMT -5
It really is. So is adding MiLB players who are under contract by MLB teams but were not drafted in the 2008 draft.
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Post by Nuke LaLoosh Express on Aug 3, 2008 13:16:12 GMT -5
I would have given up Inoa a month ago if someone said anything about it, which is why I added him the day he signed. If anyone was going to say something they would have the day he signed a $6 million dollar deal with the A's right? I'll go along with whatever Mack decides, but this should have been dealt with a while ago.
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Post by Rusty Trombones - Jackson on Aug 3, 2008 13:29:36 GMT -5
I would have given up Inoa a month ago if someone said anything about it, which is why I added him the day he signed. If anyone was going to say something they would have the day he signed a $6 million dollar deal with the A's right? I'll go along with whatever Mack decides, but this should have been dealt with a while ago. Right. And when Rodriguez signed a week later, and NOTHING had been said about Inoa, I grabbed Rodriguez.
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Post by Nellie's Holler on Aug 3, 2008 14:02:41 GMT -5
I picked up Adis Portillo as soon as San Diego signed him since there were no specific rule in place against it. I honestly didn't think it would be held up, but noone cried foul, and then Inoa was picked up about 3 hours later with no complaints. If I don't get to keep him, then that's fine. You can't blame those of us that tried though. Otherwise we'd get screwed.
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Post by Rusty Trombones - Jackson on Aug 3, 2008 16:37:56 GMT -5
I picked up Adis Portillo as soon as San Diego signed him since there were no specific rule in place against it. I honestly didn't think it would be held up, but noone cried foul, and then Inoa was picked up about 3 hours later with no complaints. If I don't get to keep him, then that's fine. You can't blame those of us that tried though. Otherwise we'd get screwed. I'm fine with it either way too. I emailed Mack and asked him to make a ruling.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2008 19:39:55 GMT -5
I mention it in the trade post Buckner/Bobby 5 for 1 trade. You guys can trade and pick up anybody you want. I don't care. Keep Rafael & Inoa. I'm having fun trying to set my lineup to get the best production out of my players, while most of you are taking this so fucking serious. Trying to outdo each other. Do you see why this league should never become a money league?
Something should be in place if a 16 year old Domincan signs a contract a restricted free agent waiver should be in place. But instead we have a free for-all. Thats why I called it a bullshit move Jackson. Complete chaos. We all seen those contracts being sign by those boys, while some waited wondering what to do, while others god know what they did to get to a computer to make sure that got there player.
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Post by Rusty Trombones - Jackson on Aug 3, 2008 19:48:36 GMT -5
I mention it in the trade post Buckner/Bobby 5 for 1 trade. You guys can trade and pick up anybody you want. I don't care. Keep Rafael & Inoa. I'm having fun trying to set my lineup to get the best production out of my players, while most of you are taking this so fucking serious. Trying to outdo each other. Do you see why this league should never become a money league? Something should be in place if a 16 year old Domincan signs a contract a restricted free agent waiver should be in place. But instead we have a free for-all. Thats why I called it a bullshit move Jackson. Complete chaos. We all seen those contracts being sign by those boys, while some waited wondering what to do, while others god know what they did to get to a computer to make sure that got there player. The intense competition is exactly why this should be a money league. I think we're all having quite a bit of fun taking it serious and trying to out-do each other. As far as chaos and a free-for-all, isn't that the point? Is it any different when someone loses the closer job and some unknown RP becomes a closer? That's why I think I should get to keep Rodriguez, I did my homework and got him. Why a month later when the topic comes up for discussion should I lose him?
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Post by Bobby Ayala - Matt on Aug 3, 2008 19:55:08 GMT -5
I'm having fun trying to set my lineup to get the best production out of my players, while most of you are taking this so fucking serious. Trying to outdo each other. I'm sorry, but this is a competition isn't it? Games are played to be won, aren't they? Give me a break with your high road bullshit, you never log on except to be a dick anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2008 22:01:36 GMT -5
Bobby chill out. High road bullshit? what the fuck is this shit?
(I think everyone understands the intention of the rule is that players who are added midseason to the MiLB system shouldn't be available until the next draft.)
Quote: I'm getting tired of rules constantly changing because someone else didn't think of something first.
(In the first year of a league like this, changes are bound to happen. We're all new at this, and we suffer through it now so it's all ironed out for every year after.)
the man of reason? LOL
Buckner was right. Nuke & Jackson found a loophole.
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Post by Bobby Ayala - Matt on Aug 3, 2008 23:08:06 GMT -5
Bobby chill out. High road bullshit? what the fuck is this shit? I guess I'll requote you: "I'm having fun trying to set my lineup to get the best production out of my players, while most of you are taking this so fucking serious." That statement makes a separation between having fun and trying to win, that they are mutually exclusive, that we cannot do both. You're implying that by "having fun" (which 'most of us' clearly must not be,) you are taking a higher road. By the way, please, I beg you, continue referencing the 5 for 1 trade, it's funnier and funnier everytime you use it as a reference to what's wrong with this league. That trade ended up being Verlander for 4 minor league keepers and Laffey, who Verlander only seriously outdid in Ks.
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Post by Rusty Trombones - Jackson on Aug 4, 2008 7:21:48 GMT -5
Bobby chill out. High road bullshit? what the fuck is this shit? I guess I'll requote you: "I'm having fun trying to set my lineup to get the best production out of my players, while most of you are taking this so fucking serious." That statement makes a separation between having fun and trying to win, that they are mutually exclusive, that we cannot do both. You're implying that by "having fun" (which 'most of us' clearly must not be,) you are taking a higher road. By the way, please, I beg you, continue referencing the 5 for 1 trade, it's funnier and funnier everytime you use it as a reference to what's wrong with this league. That trade ended up being Verlander for 4 minor league keepers and Laffey, who Verlander only seriously outdid in Ks. Not that it makes a difference in that trade as there were several other players involved, but there is a much bigger difference between Aaron Laffey and Justin Verlader than just K's.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2008 8:45:52 GMT -5
(I think everyone understands the intention of the rule is that players who are added midseason to the MiLB system shouldn't be available until the next draft.) I don't want to get in the middle of the bitching b/c a) I don't give a shit since my MiLB team is the shizznittlebamsnipsnapsnap and b) I don't want to swear at any of you fuckers...but this was my general understanding and what seems to make the most sense.
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