Draft Format

[Tecuala Juggernauts]

I know the winter meetings are over and I should have brought this up sooner, but since we're drafting and most of us are checking in every now and then, maybe we can at least discuss this.

As it stands now, we do a snake draft. This handicaps teams that need to improve. I understand a snake draft in a new league or in a complete re-draft, or even in a keeper league where only five or so players are being kept...but this league is different.

In this league, we get to keep almost a full starting squad of field players and pitchers. By the time the first draft pick has been taken, 192 guys are already off the board. With that many guys gone from the pool, the talent drops off so quickly from round to round, and there's not much of a chance to improve a team without taking every high-priced veteran nobody else wants.

I don't mean to pick on Jackson by saying this, but it seems ridiculous that Jackson's team gets to add two of the top 17 players available while my team gets one, and then doesn't pick again until 32.

Shouldn't the object of our draft be to try and help teams that need it? In real-life, the MLB draft goes in the same order each round. Why shouldn't our draft work the same way?

[Deleted]

I would be up for letting the first seven rounds draft the same order each and every round with the eighth round beginning the snake (first place guy gets the first pick in that next round).

You'd be surprised how quickly fortunes can change after a few rounds in this draft. There were a number of us discussing the draft we had last year after almost each pick. We found it rather easy to pick winners and losers by round nine and safely pick who was going to slide up or down in the rankings compared to the year prior.

[varsity18]

I think its a good idea.

[Nuke LaLoosh Express]

I think it's something to consider next season, but wouldn't work for this season, since so many picks have been traded already. I also echo Ol Dusty's remarks by saying just because Jackson has #16 and #17 overall doesn't mean he's going to repeat as league champion because he doesn't get another pick until the last pick of the 3rd round, 48 picks later.

[Ninja Warriors (JB)]

I would be in favor of changing the format for the beginning of the draft. This is something we should decide before the end of this draft. You never know when someone might trade a draft pick for next year.

[Deleted]

I would have to second this idea! I am not about whining, but last year it was easy to tune out of the league after drafting 1 solid keeper in the draft (Eithier), and a lucky Bourn in the later rounds as I had little opportunity to build up my team throughout the season, besides trading away rights to my MiLB players.

I thought I did pretty well going from 16-13th place with what I was dealt with but with the current draft set-up, I think it is going to take at least 2-5 years before I am competitive in the top 8 teams. I think this topic should be voted on in next Winter meetings.

Otherwise, unless you are in the top 8 teams and have a plethora of talent to trade away, this league loses its draft excitement pretty fast. Thanks for the suggestion!

[Nellie's Holler]

This would have to be voted on ASAP because, like Ninja said, it could affect draft pick trading in the future.

[Deleted]

Completely agree this is a good idea. At least for the first half of the draft or so.

[Rusty Trombones - Jackson]

Colin you whiny bastard. You new owners and your handouts. Like fucking unicef.

Josh was right though, me having 2 of the top 17 picks wont make me repeat as league champ, my GM savvy will take care of that.

[Tecuala Juggernauts]

Jan 11, 2010 20:03:31 GMT -5 Nuke LaLoosh Express said:

I think it's something to consider next season, but wouldn't work for this season, since so many picks have been traded already. I also echo Ol Dusty's remarks by saying just because Jackson has #16 and #17 overall doesn't mean he's going to repeat as league champion because he doesn't get another pick until the last pick of the 3rd round, 48 picks later.

I completely agree. I didn't mean we should be considering it for this season.

I also agree that Jackson doesn't necessarily have the championship sewn up. Anything can happen, but that's not why I proposed this...I just think it's a fairer way to draft.

[Rusty Trombones - Jackson]

Jan 11, 2010 20:56:52 GMT -5 Tecuala Juggernauts said:

Jan 11, 2010 20:03:31 GMT -5 Nuke LaLoosh Express said:

I think it's something to consider next season, but wouldn't work for this season, since so many picks have been traded already. I also echo Ol Dusty's remarks by saying just because Jackson has #16 and #17 overall doesn't mean he's going to repeat as league champion because he doesn't get another pick until the last pick of the 3rd round, 48 picks later.

I completely agree. I didn't mean we should be considering it for this season.

I also agree that Jackson doesn't necessarily have the championship sewn up. Anything can happen, but that's not why I proposed this...I just think it's a fairer way to draft.

You guys better change the rules before my unstoppable dynasty takes hold.

[Nellie's Holler]

How about we leave Jackson out of the draft altogether. He gets to pick his players after the draft is done.

[Nuke LaLoosh Express]

Jan 11, 2010 21:08:57 GMT -5 Nellie's Holler said:

How about we leave Jackson out of the draft altogether. He gets to pick his players after the draft is done.

Now that's a good idea. We all get to take turns taking his picks.

On a serious note I put up a poll. Take into consideration this might drastically affect the value of MLB picks. Would we also do this for MiLB?

[Deleted]

Jan 11, 2010 21:01:18 GMT -5 Rusty Trombones - Jackson said:

Jan 11, 2010 20:56:52 GMT -5 Tecuala Juggernauts said:

I completely agree. I didn't mean we should be considering it for this season.

I also agree that Jackson doesn't necessarily have the championship sewn up. Anything can happen, but that's not why I proposed this...I just think it's a fairer way to draft.

You guys better change the rules before my unstoppable dynasty takes hold.

Yea yea...until one of your pitchers needs elbow surgery.

[Nellie's Holler]

Only possible problem is tanking. If a team knows he isn't going to win anyways, knowing that the draft is very skewed to give the lower teams an advantage in the draft, wouldn't that give an incentive to tanking?

[Deleted]

Tanking should not be an issue with this nucleus of guys. I think back to the vote regarding the draft order and wish we had the bottom eight's picks drawn out of a hat. A random order every season means no one has any clue at all which pick he will have, putting all tanking worries to rest once and for all.

A change in the draft rounds like the above proposal probably won't add to it. No one here comes across as a guy willing to drop a few spots in the final rankings just to get one guy. It just isn't worth it in my mind.

[Deleted]

interesting idea

[Bobby Ayala - Matt]

I would vote against this. The snake draft doesn't handicap the lower teams, they get the first choice among players, which is way better than someone getting 16th and 17th. I feel like the difference between 1 and 16 is WAY more than the difference between 16 and 32. You may not agree, but consider that altering the draft like this doesn't just help teams rebuild, it really handicaps teams that finish at the top. The advantage this gives is so profound- a better pick every round- that it would encourage players to tank even more and we'd be complaining about that. Yeah we've got a good core of guys, but in the last week of the season with a couple points separating 6 or 7 spots in the draft, you telling me someone isn't want those better picks?

At some point we have to stop "helping bad teams get better" and let them earn it themselves. I went from 10th to 5th on my own last year without this, anyone can do that without this unfair advantage.

[Tecuala Juggernauts]

If we've got guys tanking to get a better spot in the draft, then we've got larger issues than our draft positions.

I don't think this gives an advantage that is "so profound," as you say, because there are no profound advantages to be had when the first draft pick has been deemed approximately the 193rd best player in our league, based on our keeper decisions.

There's no difference between 1 and 16 this year...each is just filling a need for that specific team at this point. Even calling it a 1 is a misnomer...it's actually a 193. Simply put, a snake draft handicaps the teams who are worse off to begin with when there are this many keepers involved because the pool of players left over are either roster-fillers or salary-cap-killers. It would be different if there were game-changing talents available, but the fact that we keep so many means there aren't.

You call this "an unfair advantage," but it's not. If it was so unfair, I don't think every major pro sport in America would run their drafts this way. And yes, pro sports in America are keeper leagues, just like us.

Giving the worst teams the early picks in every round at least gives them a chance to improve. It doesn't guarantee it -- they still gotta pick well -- but it gives them a chance. As it stands now, a snake draft allows every team in the league to fill their top two needs before the worst team gets to do that.

Or maybe I'm just impatient, and I know that my stud MiLBers won't have me in contention for several years. Fuck, man. I wish I'd been in this league from the start. I forgot who had my team before me, but I'd like to punch his momma in the mouth.

[Deleted]

Excellent comeback Colin.

The first 2 rounds of a draft. What set of picks would you like to have?

Round1 pick #197
Round2 pick #221

Round1 pick #209
Round2 pick #210

[Nellie's Holler]

I don't think you can exactly compare this to real sports in that their drafts are essentially for Minor league players. You won't find any established Manny Ramirez, Denard Span, 10-15 proven closers, Cuddy, etc etc etc in any kind of real MLB draft. I can see doing the MiLB that way mirroring the real thing, but now with established players. It's apples and oranges!

[Nellie's Holler]

I think plenty of people aren't above not giving a fuck the last month as is if they are out of competition. Add on the fact that they can better their position for next year by doing so, and see what happens. I seem to remember our own champ from last year saying before that he wasn't above doing things that are in the grey area to win before (not exact words, but you catch the drift).

[Bobby Ayala - Matt]

Jan 12, 2010 17:20:35 GMT -5 Tecuala Juggernauts said:

I don't think this gives an advantage that is "so profound," as you say, because there are no profound advantages to be had when the first draft pick has been deemed approximately the 193rd best player in our league, based on our keeper decisions.

The first drafted player isn't the 193rd best player, I think just about everyone taken in the first round was better than someone else that was kept. But it's not just the 1st-16th picks anyway, it's drafting 15 spots behind another manager every round for the whole draft, or for 7 rounds, or whatever. It adds up to be too much in my opinion.

[Tecuala Juggernauts]

The way it works now adds up to be too little, in my opinion, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, Matt.

[Bobby Ayala - Matt]

Jan 12, 2010 19:09:11 GMT -5 Tecuala Juggernauts said:

The way it works now adds up to be too little, in my opinion, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, Matt.

Cool. I think regardless it might be too late to talk about this for next draft, since we already voted to change the draft format back to the old way for next year.