FINES

[Bobby Ayala - Matt]

There's a little too much here to vote on. I think Mack can make an executive decision here and just lay down the law. Before that, everyone should way in on specific changes we should make. I don't think we've talked seriously about specific numbers, this is the place to do it.

Current fines:
$25k per day you leave a player on your DL after he's been activated from the real-world DL

$25k per day all starting positions are not filled

$50k per day you do not have a full 30 guys on your ESPN roster

$100k per day you go over the salary cap

[C4]

IMHO, there should be a 3 or 5 man committee to consider grievances (tanking, collusion, etc). In those cases, the committee would decide whether or not the accused team owner abused the system (not fielding a full team, sitting stars for scrubs, playing people who are on the DL or in the minors, etc). In those cases where the owner is guilty, the punishment should not be limited to monetary in nature. They should forfeit draft picks, draft at the end of the order, as well as have their cap reduced.

I have no issue with the fine for leaving a player on the DL, as long as there is some grace period. I don't think that there should be a fine for not having 30 players on your team (as long as you are fielding a competitive lineup already), but it doesn't matter to me anyway, as I will maintain as many as you let me roster

[Bobby Ayala - Matt]

My two cents:

Eliminate the DL fine. ESPN won't allow you make any adds/drops with an ineligible player on your DL, that's penalty enough.

Eliminate the fine for not having all starting spots full every day, because they won't stop a manager from purposefully tanking to adjust their draft spot, (ala Jackson on the last day this year.) Instead, if someone tanks to get a better draft spot they should get stuck with the last pick.

Eliminate the fine for not maintaining a 30-man roster. There were a couple teams and situations that popped up this year that showed legitimate reasons to not carry a full 30 guys sometimes.

Increase the fine for going over the cap, by a lot. This is the easiest way for someone to cheat, and after the unscrupulous behavior we saw this year just for a better draft spot, it seems like a good idea to stop it from happening in a way that would determine a league winner. I think $1mil a day at least.

[Yoink!]

In general i think anything we can do to address it that avoids us having to constantly monitor each other is preferable (some type of system where there is less to gain from tanking vs more to lose via penalties), since I think we have a hard enough time monitoring ourselves with the existing rules. I can say that I had no idea some were leaving roster spots empty until I checked on the last day, and I never spent time checking another team's payroll to make sure it was not over the cap. I barely have enough time to monitor my own team. Did other managers check the DL spots, 30 man rosters, benching of superstars, etc on other teams this year?

I like think the bottom eight lottery idea mentioned in the draft order thread is a good one, and would help discourage tanking without needing us to spend time monitoring each other.

[Tecuala Juggernauts]

I agree with a lot of what Matt said:
1) The penalties for breaking rules should be so ridiculous that it's totally not worth it to break a rule. $25,000 a day is ludicrously low. Someone could decide to NOT field a full roster for a month and it would only cost him $750,000. For someone whose team isn't competitive, that's a barely noticeable price to pay to get a better draft position. For someone whose team IS competitive, it's more worth it to pay that fine than it is to put in a scrub (just because he's the only one available on the wire) that might hurt your team in the standings. The fine for leaving roster spots empty should be something like $1M per day, per position you leave empty.

2) If you go over on payroll, your cap is reduced by 10% of the total salary cap PLUS the amount you went over (cumulative for the year) in the following season.
So if the salary cap is $130M and you're over the cap by $1M for six days, your cap is reduced by $13M (10%) plus $6M (the amount you went over) the next year. (Maybe we could do it as a luxury tax sort of thing, where all the other teams split that money and get extra payroll.)

3) A 3-5 man grievance committee is too unwieldy, and wouldn't likely yield decisions in a timely manner. Most of us, when we're discussing trades for instance, have trouble enough getting responses from ONE other member during the season. I'm in favor of a one-man grievance committee: Mack. He's always been fair about decisions since I've joined this league, and his decisions have always proven level-headed in the long run. His BASEBALL decisions, anyway. (I'm still not sure you made the right choice with that one-eyed hooker in Zacualpan last year, Mack.)

4) Eliminate the DL fine. I agree with Matt's reasoning, and we've already got a 24-hour grace period.

5) Eliminate the fine for not keeping a 30-man roster. I agree with Matt's reasoning, and I think it's a disadvantage for most teams NOT to carry a full 30-man roster. I want the best players and best reserves possible on my roster, so that if someone goes down for an extended period then I've got a replacement ready, and I'm not picking up Miguel Tejada to play SS in an emergency.

6) I hate that we have to consider, and probably will end up having, a lottery for our draft. In my mind, it's a direct response to teams tanking to get better draft picks, and I wish that didn't happen in this league. In real life, the draft should work to benefit the worst teams. Teams that tank for better draft picks prevent the draft from working as it should. I voted to have the draft in the reverse order of the standings, but that's the idealist in me. In reality, I know we will be, and am resigned to, having a lottery for the bottom eight.

[C4]

In real life, the draft should work to benefit the worst teams.

But that's the problem with this league. The draft doesn't favor the worst teams. It favors the mid-pack teams, and leaves the worst teams with mid-round picks. As far as tanking, a lottery all but eliminates any need for it.

[Rusty Trombones - Jackson]

Ok...as the person who started most of this controversy with my awful and devious behavior I'll weigh in.

The lottery solves the problem for the most part, but if I'm sitting 7th, I'm still going to tank to get in that lottery if it's only the bottom 8 teams. There's no way in hell I'm picking 7th if I have even a remote shot at the #1 pick.

A group of 5 owners deciding if people are tanking doesn't work, too subjective.

I like Colin's idea of making the fines really high for empty roster spots, ect, but only if the fines are for THE FOLLOWING YEAR. Fines during a lost season, who cares? I was like $20 million under the cap, I could give a shit if I got fined this year, my team was awful and I didn't care what my cap number was.

Make people be creative with their tanking if they want to. Teams in every major sport play younger players once the season is lost to get them PT, but also improve their draft position, why should we care? If people want to try to tank with subpar players in their lineup, whatever...If we have a lottery it's not that big a deal anyway.

Just the opinion of a lowdown, dirty cheater. Merry Christmas motherfuckers.