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Post by Rusty Trombones - Jackson on Mar 30, 2012 9:53:00 GMT -5
What's the final day for penalty free add/drops and guys on the DL on rosters? I apologize if this is posted somewhere obvious.
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Post by Rusty Trombones - Jackson on Mar 30, 2012 15:01:23 GMT -5
Does anyone know or remember? Has it passed? The season kind of 'started' but since all the DL-bound players were still on waivers I thought we had a few days.
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Post by Bobby Ayala - Matt on Mar 30, 2012 17:24:11 GMT -5
The deadline passed, it was Monday night.
Are you getting the emails?
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Post by Rusty Trombones - Jackson on Mar 30, 2012 17:29:58 GMT -5
The deadline passed, it was Monday night. Are you getting the emails? No but that's my fault, my email is fucked up. What about DL players? |
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Post by Bobby Ayala - Matt on Mar 30, 2012 17:39:51 GMT -5
We haven't set anything about DL players. I thought we'd do it like last year, you have to add them on ESPN within a couple days of the start of the season. The 'real' start of the season.
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Post by Rusty Trombones - Jackson on Mar 30, 2012 17:42:50 GMT -5
We haven't set anything about DL players. I thought we'd do it like last year, you have to add them on ESPN within a couple days of the start of the season. The 'real' start of the season. Sounds good, thanks Matt. |
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Post by Tecuala Juggernauts on Apr 12, 2012 17:18:40 GMT -5
We haven't set anything about DL players. I thought we'd do it like last year, you have to add them on ESPN within a couple days of the start of the season. The 'real' start of the season. So if a DL'd player hasn't been added back to someone's lineup on ESPN now that the season is a week old, can I add him? If so, I'd like to claim Chase Utley. |
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Post by Rusty Trombones - Jackson on Apr 12, 2012 20:04:38 GMT -5
I got dibs on Carpenter.
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Post by Bobby Ayala - Matt on Apr 12, 2012 20:11:13 GMT -5
We haven't set anything about DL players. I thought we'd do it like last year, you have to add them on ESPN within a couple days of the start of the season. The 'real' start of the season. So if a DL'd player hasn't been added back to someone's lineup on ESPN now that the season is a week old, can I add him? If so, I'd like to claim Chase Utley. I emailed Chris (Nellie,) he's got Utley and Gutierrez I think. |
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Post by Tecuala Juggernauts on Apr 12, 2012 20:17:36 GMT -5
So if a DL'd player hasn't been added back to someone's lineup on ESPN now that the season is a week old, can I add him? If so, I'd like to claim Chase Utley. I emailed Chris (Nellie,) he's got Utley and Gutierrez I think. I think he has Stephen Drew as well. |
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Post by Nellie's Holler on Apr 12, 2012 20:32:22 GMT -5
Stress is getting to me lately. Senior Design is kicking my ass. I fucked up, Utley is yours. I picked up Drew before anyone said anything about him, and I'd like to pick up Guitierrez too unless someone's claiming him too.
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Post by Nellie's Holler on Apr 12, 2012 22:34:46 GMT -5
I added Gutierrez because I don't see where anyone wanted to claim him. I don't consider dropping Reed to be counted against my # of drops for him as I only did it to add the DL players.
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Post by Yoink! on Apr 12, 2012 22:46:16 GMT -5
So if Nelllie is giving up Utley, doesn't he have to go through waivers? Someone please clarify for me as I may want to put a claim in too
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Post by Bobby Ayala - Matt on Apr 12, 2012 23:40:23 GMT -5
Nellie keeps Utley. Didn't have him on his DL, no big deal, put him on there now.
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Post by Tecuala Juggernauts on Apr 13, 2012 10:07:51 GMT -5
Nellie keeps Utley. Didn't have him on his DL, no big deal, put him on there now. Although I'll admit that I'd love to add Utley to one of my DL spots, I was just messing with Chris. I saw where he'd put him on his DL on Proboards, and I assumed it was merely an oversight. Still, I think we need to work throughout this season to make sure some of these dates and rules are clearer instead of simply relying on precedents from years past. When I didn't have Broxton on my ESPN roster by a certain date, despite the fact that I'd clearly drafted him and had him on my Proboards roster, Gary added him to his ESPN roster and was allowed to do so. I feel like if I had done the same with Utley, I could have said the same thing as Gary: "What? I looked on ESPN and he wasn't on a roster." Instead, I ask about it before doing it and end up not getting the player. Again...I didn't actually expect to get the player. I was more bringing it up to mess with Chris. Still, something about this process doesn't seem right. |
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Post by fishmystic on Apr 13, 2012 21:01:54 GMT -5
Nellie keeps Utley. Didn't have him on his DL, no big deal, put him on there now. ARE YOU KIDDING? We all sat there politely not grabbing Utley assuming it was a mistake and we let it ride. Then he doesn't have to go through waivers to give everyone a chance. That's just stupid man. I would have put him in my empty bench and on the DL every day. F***ed up. |
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Post by fishmystic on Apr 13, 2012 21:08:48 GMT -5
Nellie keeps Utley. Didn't have him on his DL, no big deal, put him on there now. ARE YOU KIDDING? We all sat there politely not grabbing Utley assuming it was a mistake and we let it ride. Then he doesn't have to go through waivers to give everyone a chance. That's just stupid man. I would have put him in my empty bench and on the DL every day. F***ed up. OK, my fault, Nellie put him on the DL originally. Seriously though, this is all really confusing not knowing who is available and who is not switching between the board and the ESPN FA's. |
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Post by C4 on Apr 14, 2012 8:20:52 GMT -5
The problem that we have is that we allow ESPN moves to count as actual transactions, however the intent of the move (or lack thereof) is not seen. I used to play in a league which mandated that ALL adds/drops/cuts/promotions/demotions/etc be made in Proboards. ESPN was only to be used as a stat tracker for the league. It made it so much easier, as every move allowed us to spell out (in words) the intent of each move that was made.
For example:
In our current league, if an owner drops Lance Lynn from his team but doesn't post anything is Proboards, we must assume that he still wants him and thus moved him to his MiLB roster. If we find out later that the owner really was just dropping him altogether, we would have to bend our rules to do the waivers after the fact.
In the rule set from the league that I described, you MUST post that you dropped Lynn (and where he is going - Minors or Waivers).
In our current league, an owner searches our PB to see if a particular player is available (and sees that nobody has claimed him), then posts that he is taking that guy. He then logs onto ESPN and tries to pick him up, only to find out that some other owner picked him up some time ago and never posted anything to make it official.
By the other set of rules, you can only pick someone up by posting it in the acquisitions thread.
It just makes everything so much easier (and fairer) to have one defining site to make our moves, and if it has to be ESPN, then at least mandate that all moves have to be accompanied by a message post explaining the move to avoid confusion. Or we could just continue to fight through the "exceptions to the rule"...
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Post by Bobby Ayala - Matt on Apr 14, 2012 11:36:36 GMT -5
The problem that we have is that we allow ESPN moves to count as actual transactions, however the intent of the move (or lack thereof) is not seen. I used to play in a league which mandated that ALL adds/drops/cuts/promotions/demotions/etc be made in Proboards. ESPN was only to be used as a stat tracker for the league. It made it so much easier, as every move allowed us to spell out (in words) the intent of each move that was made. For example: In our current league, if an owner drops Lance Lynn from his team but doesn't post anything is Proboards, we must assume that he still wants him and thus moved him to his MiLB roster. If we find out later that the owner really was just dropping him altogether, we would have to bend our rules to do the waivers after the fact. In the rule set from the league that I described, you MUST post that you dropped Lynn (and where he is going - Minors or Waivers). In our current league, an owner searches our PB to see if a particular player is available (and sees that nobody has claimed him), then posts that he is taking that guy. He then logs onto ESPN and tries to pick him up, only to find out that some other owner picked him up some time ago and never posted anything to make it official. By the other set of rules, you can only pick someone up by posting it in the acquisitions thread. It just makes everything so much easier (and fairer) to have one defining site to make our moves, and if it has to be ESPN, then at least mandate that all moves have to be accompanied by a message post explaining the move to avoid confusion. Or we could just continue to fight through the "exceptions to the rule"... Good idea. Actually, we already do mandate that every transaction gets posted on Proboards. But not everybody does it all the time no matter how many times someone says something. I think the ESPN site is where the stats and points are at so it's always going to be viewed as more important. If we could come up with a better way to make sure people post every time, that'd be great. Any suggestions? |
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Post by Tecuala Juggernauts on Apr 14, 2012 11:51:15 GMT -5
Good idea. Actually, we already do mandate that every transaction gets posted on Proboards. But not everybody does it all the time no matter how many times someone says something. I think the ESPN site is where the stats and points are at so it's always going to be viewed as more important. If we could come up with a better way to make sure people post every time, that'd be great. Any suggestions?Well, we could actually enforce the "mandate that every transaction gets posted to Proboards." I mean, if you're already online doing the transaction on ESPN, how hard is it to go to Proboards and report the transaction? We could just say that the ESPN and Proboards transactions have to happen within an hour of each other or the player is considered a free agent, and the transaction never happened. |
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Post by C4 on Apr 14, 2012 12:36:33 GMT -5
Or we could just make Proboards the definitive point of reference for all transactions. That would mean that if you didn't post it, it never happened. Which would mean that if you pick up a player on ESPN, but never post it, the guy who posts it 3 days later gets him. And the guy who picks him up and uses him without posting get a penalty. Without penalties, we will always have this 2-system league, where we keep making exceptions for people who don't post their transactions properly.
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Post by Bobby Ayala - Matt on Apr 14, 2012 18:54:02 GMT -5
Well, we could actually enforce the "mandate that every transaction gets posted to Proboards." I mean, if you're already online doing the transaction on ESPN, how hard is it to go to Proboards and report the transaction? We could just say that the ESPN and Proboards transactions have to happen within an hour of each other or the player is considered a free agent, and the transaction never happened. That seems like a pretty harsh penalty. What about someone who honestly forgets to go to the proboards? They get screwed out of their player for what amounts to a clerical error. Or as a new i-phone user I could easily see myself making a roster move on the go and maybe not having time to also go to proboards. No matter how much we try to say the proboard is the definitive site, people will still treat ESPN as the "master site." If I'm in a rush and only have time to go one, ESPN or Proboards, I'm going to ESPN everytime because that's where the actual game is. I'd be in favor of some kind of fine, I guess, but not loss of players or anything. It's good to hear others wanting a better system though. |
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Post by fishmystic on Apr 14, 2012 23:09:43 GMT -5
It seems like proboards has to be the definitive site. Still, not following up on the ESPN site is difficult (e.g., the recent Utley issue.) And you can't get a take out pizza when you stay in the cheap hotel...
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Post by Tecuala Juggernauts on Apr 15, 2012 8:32:49 GMT -5
I don't think loss of the player is a harsh penalty, because I honestly don't think it's that difficult to report the transaction. C'mon, man. We should all have both of these site in our Bookmarks/Favorites, and it literally takes two seconds to flip over to the other site.
In fact, loss of the player is the only penalty that makes sense. What are we gonna do, have another $50,000/day penalty? That's hardly a deterrent. I've got something like $20M extra to play with...do you really think the thought of possibly losing $100-150k for forgetting to post something for a couple of days is a penalty?
If we make the penalty a fine, we are not enforcing our rule. Our rule is that you are supposed to pick up the player on ESPN and post the transaction on Proboards. If we say, "Oh, but if you don't, you get a fine," we're saying that it's okay to not follow the rule.
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Post by C4 on Apr 15, 2012 9:25:02 GMT -5
Two Scenarios:
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1) WE MAKE PROBOARDS POSTS REQUIRED
Pros:
* No more "exceptions to the rule", as all transactions are recorded with timestamps.
* No time wasted in searching for transactions that do not exist. If the player is not taken in PB, he is available...period.
* Clearly settles the "who gets player X, I took him on ESPN and someone else posted that they signed him on Proboards" dilemma.
Cons:
* We must post every transaction in PB to ensure that we alert everyone to our intent (we are supposed to do this anyway).
* We must visit both sites to make the transaction complete (again, we are already supposed to do this as well).
2) WE KEEP RUNNING THIS THE WAY THAT WE HAVE BEEN
Pros:
* Only need to use ESPN to pick up a player.
* Can keep a MiLB-eligible player by just dropping him on ESPN.
Cons:
* (Sometimes lengthy) Debates over who gets a player when 2 owners pick him up - one in ESPN and one in PB.
* Confusion over whether a MiLB-eligible player is dropped or demoted if message not posted in PB.
* Wasted time searching PB for players who may or may not be available.
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Ironically, I don't care if we run this either way. Just as long as we're consistent and fair. It just seems that it would be easier to handle if Proboards were the only site that counted. The worst-case scenario with the way that we run it now is mass confusion and mayhem. The worst-case if we made Proboards the only point of reference would be that you pick a guy up and miss a day or two of his stats until you find the time to actually pick him up.
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Post by Nellie's Holler on Apr 15, 2012 10:02:45 GMT -5
We just need to create our own fantasy baseball league that accepts all the parameters we want to eliminate the two site dilemmas. One that will keep track of our salaries, minor league players, and regular players.
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Post by Bobby Ayala - Matt on Apr 15, 2012 13:48:31 GMT -5
I don't think loss of the player is a harsh penalty, because I honestly don't think it's that difficult to report the transaction. C'mon, man. We should all have both of these site in our Bookmarks/Favorites, and it literally takes two seconds to flip over to the other site. In fact, loss of the player is the only penalty that makes sense. What are we gonna do, have another $50,000/day penalty? That's hardly a deterrent. I've got something like $20M extra to play with...do you really think the thought of possibly losing $100-150k for forgetting to post something for a couple of days is a penalty? If we make the penalty a fine, we are not enforcing our rule. Our rule is that you are supposed to pick up the player on ESPN and post the transaction on Proboards. If we say, "Oh, but if you don't, you get a fine," we're saying that it's okay to not follow the rule. The original purpose for posting every transaction was to alert everyone to the salaries of the players in question, to make it easier for the folks keeping track. Forgetting to post a transaction is a clerical error- it gains no competitive advantage. Removal of a player from a roster is harsher than penalties we have for cheating, is that really necessary? It doesn't always take 2 seconds to flip over to Proboards, sometimes shit happens and the internet goes down, or you go into a tunnel, or someone calls unexpectedly, or your battery dies, etc. Should I lose a player over that? What happened to this being a good-natured game where we give each other the benefit of the doubt? If we all worry about our own shit, and do everything we can to make sure a player is available before adding him, we shouldn't have a problem. The Utley situation came about because the manager didn't see the post about him on the DL. The Kenley Jansen situation last year came from a lack of understanding about the rules. I can't think of any other time that not posting a transaction caused any issue. |
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Post by Bobby Ayala - Matt on Apr 15, 2012 15:23:46 GMT -5
1) WE MAKE PROBOARDS POSTS REQUIREDPros: * No more "exceptions to the rule", as all transactions are recorded with timestamps. * No time wasted in searching for transactions that do not exist. If the player is not taken in PB, he is available...period. * Clearly settles the "who gets player X, I took him on ESPN and someone else posted that they signed him on Proboards" dilemma. Cons: * We must post every transaction in PB to ensure that we alert everyone to our intent (we are supposed to do this anyway). * We must visit both sites to make the transaction complete (again, we are already supposed to do this as well). Ok, we already require proboard posts, but a couple things: -ESPN is the definitive site for who is on your MLB roster. For all other issues (minor leaguers, options, salaries, penalties,) we use Proboards. We use the ESPN timestamp because of clock issues we've had in the past with proboards, and because there's no way to have an invalid MLB roster, accidentally or otherwise, on ESPN. If two managers try to add the same player at the same time, one on ESPN and one on Proboards, ESPN wins out. We do that because the ESPN page has a rigid clock that turns over at the start of the first game each day, and if you're trying to make a last-second add you have to make sure it's taken care of on ESPN first. The worst-case scenario with the way that we run it now is mass confusion and mayhem. The worst-case if we made Proboards the only point of reference would be that you pick a guy up and miss a day or two of his stats until you find the time to actually pick him up. I cannot stress enough how bad this would be. If people pick up someone on Proboards and don't add them on ESPN for days, you'd have to bounce back and forth even more between sites to see who's available and who isn't. And if someone misspells a name and they don't come up in a search, we'd have scenarios where people are adding players when someone else owns them and it would be a huge mess. |
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Post by Bobby Ayala - Matt on Apr 15, 2012 15:26:27 GMT -5
We just need to create our own fantasy baseball league that accepts all the parameters we want to eliminate the two site dilemmas. One that will keep track of our salaries, minor league players, and regular players. Yes. Can anyone program? |
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Post by C4 on Apr 15, 2012 15:32:24 GMT -5
We just need to create our own fantasy baseball league that accepts all the parameters we want to eliminate the two site dilemmas. One that will keep track of our salaries, minor league players, and regular players. Yes. Can anyone program? The programming isn't the issue...it would be getting the stats ported to the site. Right? |
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